A discussion forum for people living with diabetes and those involved in diabetes care in the UK. September 25th - October 31st 2005

Early detection - Closed

Early and effective treatment is the key to preventing the long term effects of diabetes such as heart disease, strokes, blindness, nerve damage and kidney disease.

It is estimated that there are around 1 million people in the UK today who have diabetes but do not know it. By the time they are diagnosed with Type 2 diabetes, 50 per cent of people already have the first signs of complications.

  • Does your GP clinic actively look for people with diabetes?
  • Were you diagnosed with diabetes as a result of heart, sight or other problems caused by your diabetes?
  • Did you go to your doctor with symptoms of diabetes (increased thirst, blurred vision, going to the toilet all the time) but weren’t tested?

Welcome to Diabetes Dialogue!

Posted by Barry on 23/09/2005 - 10:51

This is your space to tell us about your experience of living with diabetes and give us your views on diabetes care in the UK.

Remember – your comments will form the basis of a report on the state of diabetes care in the UK that will be presented to MPs and Peers in December 2005. So, this is your chance to share your views with the aim to make impact on the policy makers!

If you have any problems accessing the site at any time or have any questions about the forum please do not hesitate to contact us at this email address: edemocracy@hansard.lse.ac.uk

Many thanks and good luck.

Milica and Barry
Hansard Society e-Moderators team

Early detection of type 2 diabetes through screening

Posted by Prof Rhys Williams on 23/09/2005 - 11:50

Few health issues generate more heated discussion than early detection of a condition by screening. On the one hand, enthusiasts claim that it is quite obvious that people will benefit - effective treatment can be started earlier and the long term outcome, therefore, must be improved. On the other hand advocates of ‘evidence based practice’ demand proof that early detection of Type 2 diabetes will do more good than harm.

What possible harm can it do? For the individual, early detection of the condition means that they will live with the diagnosis for longer and they will have to deal with therapy, lifestyle change and the possible psychological effects – worry, anxiety etc. – and any financial consequences for longer. This is worthwhile if the adverse consequences are delayed and if the benefits (in the widest sense) outweigh the costs (in the widest sense). There is currently no direct proof that this is the case, although it is reasonable to suggest that it might be. To the health system, early detection of diabetes means that resources need to be devoted to it – resources which could be used for other activities – the more effective management of existing diabetes, for example.

National Service Framework Standards 1 and 2 – those that deal with prevention and early detection of type 2 diabetes – cannot be considered in isolation from each other. One of the consequences of efforts to detect undiagnosed diabetes will be that a considerable number of people will be identified who do not yet have diabetes but are at high risk of developing it in the future. There is direct evidence that these peoples’ diabetes will be delayed if they make the necessary lifestyle changes to reduce risk. Ironically, there is more proven benefit in this regard than in the early detection of diabetes itself. This alone might sway the argument towards a structured approach to early detection.

Professor Rhys Williams
Clinical Epidemiology
Swansea University

Early detection type 2

Posted by Peter Smith on 23/09/2005 - 17:48

We hear how much diabetics cost the NHS in terms of money, complications and now, as a percentage of the whole bill, however the cost of the simple finger tip blood test is minimal to say the least. Our chemists are taking on the role - free of charge. They, of course, see that increased drug dispensing will pay for the up front cost, the NHS is prepared to pick up the high longer term bill but will not pay the lower price for early detection.

My example appears far more common than current thinking would allow. At 45 with healthy diet, not over weight, regular exercise, not a heavy drinker, non smoker presenting regular ongoing symptoms to my GP:- infections taking a long time to clear up, impotence, skin rashes and a family history of diabetes - my 75 year old Father had recently being diagnosed type 2 - I was not diagnosed until a urine sample at the hospital where I was being investigated for a possible tumor in the lung (which turned out to be an abcess)showed high sugar content, next day confirmed by blood test to be diabetes. The severity of the abcess was due to the undiagnosed diabetes and resulted in major lung surgery,

I now at the age of 48 have heart failure, an apical thrombosis in the heart, retinopathy, impotence, poor circulation and reduced lung capacity. I am consdered to be one of the higher maintenance patients at my local practice.

Because I was initially considered too young and didn't fit the perceived profile the test was not carried out - until in my opinion it was too late. I was already seriously unwell and it is believed that I had been diabetic for up to five years.

I can see no justification for not testing everyone regularly from the age of 40, rather than waiting until they are 65 or older when, given current trends, it will be too late.

Early detection - hah!

Posted by Nicky on 26/09/2005 - 10:13

I clearly remember getting a fasting glucose reading of 12-point-something when I was pregnant with my now 10yo. This meant nothing to me at the time; nothing was done, no further tests were taken. We can but hope that my daughter has escaped the consequences of that decision. I now know that I should have been screened for gestational diabetes, and have further screening after the pregnancy to see if it had resolved.

The root causes of that dropoff are interesting. Both the nurse and GP knew of that high reading in pregnancy; why didn't they take it further? I was living in Essex at the time; is there a postcode lottery on your chances of diagnosis?

I had the classic symptoms of diabetes for some time before I got a diagnosis. I knew there was something wrong, but I didn't go to the doctor. Why? Would I have done so earlier if I'd known my symptoms were those of diabetes? Once I suspected diabetes, I was afraid I'd lose my driving licence and be stigmatised at work, as well as just burying my head in the sand. Maybe we need to educate people about diabetes and the consequences of a diagnosis.

Of course, diagnosis of frank diabetes is not an ideal solution for anyone. How much does it cost to screen someone, compared to the cost of treating even a well-controlled diabetic? The chemists seem to be doing a good job of screening for a range of issues. Could we make it more attractive for people to self-present for screening - give discount vouchers or the like?

Nicky.

T2 dx 05/2004
A1c 5.7 BMI 25
1000mg Metformin 100ug Thyroxine

Getting Early Detection Right

Posted by Dr Katharine Mo... on 26/09/2005 - 14:48

There are a couple of issues that we need to get right about diabetic screening.

The single blood test will miss many diabetics and those with glucose intolerance.

Glucose tolerance tests are time consuming and inconvenient for simple screening purposes.

In the USA a more successful method that combines the accuracy of the GTT with the convenience of the single blood test has been developed.

In this, the patient eats a wafer biscuit of a certain dose of carbohydrate and then gets a blood test one hour later. If the blood sugar is 7.8 or more they have some sort of glucose metabolism problem.

Remember that the criteria set for diabetes has been artificially set too low for resources reasons. If you have "just" glucose intolerance you are still at risk of diabetic complications. It will just take a bit longer to get them.

So, if the screening method is altered you will pick up more people with glucose metabolism problems.

If you are ill advised enough to put that person on a high carbohydrate/low fat diet as currently goes on what will happen?

Ironically, the glucose intolerant will worsen their blood sugars and wear out their pancreatic beta cells even faster than on a more balanced diet. This puts them at even more risk of complications and a diabetic diagnosis than if they had not been detected in the first place.

It has been found that the drug metformin reduces the progression of glucose intolerance to diabetes by 30%. If you have a "diagnosis" of type 2 diabetes in this country you get given metformin and free prescriptions.

I suggest stop messing about and give those with glucose intolerance access to metformin and advice that will prevent rather than accelerate the so called "disease progression" to diabetes.

Why don't all doctors screen for diabetes

Posted by FireFoxx on 26/09/2005 - 19:18

My old doctors didn't seem very interested in finding people with diabetes the only way you would get a test was if you asked them and then you had to have every symptom i.e drinking alot, passing more urine than usual ect.

But now I am living with my partener and changed my doctors they cought it at a early stage and my control is good.

Just a question for you all is getting a diagnosis a post code lottery? becuose is seemed that way to me.

:)

Early detection and healthy lifestyle messages

Posted by AndrewE on 28/09/2005 - 19:29

I think Diabetes UK has done well in highlighting the massive problem of undetected and undiagnosed Type 2 Diabetes. The numbers are frightening and I feel that the Health Service may be heading for melt down if this issue is not taken seriously and measures put in place to identify undiagnosed diabetics.

In tandem with the detection message ther also needs to be a healthy lifestyle message coming through. If more could be done to prevent or delay the onset of type 2 diabetes by people taking more exercise, eating a healthy balanced "diet" and aiming to achieve a healthy BMI then there will be less of a strain on the Health Service in later years. Reducing the risk of Type 2 diabetes and of complication caused by undetected diabetes will save the NHS a fortune in procedures and treatments of diabetic comiplications.

I think that government should fund yearly workplace health checks where healthy lifestyle messages and the risks of diabetes are included along with checks for diabetes and other health risks. This workplace assessment cost could actually save the NHS money in the long run. But hey what do I know?

Early detection

Posted by Neil Musk on 28/09/2005 - 20:16

Neil Musk

Does your GP clinic actively look for people with diabetes? Not sure if they do.
Were you diagnosed with diabetes as a result of heart, sight or other problems caused by your diabetes? - Other problems, e.g. busting to go to the loo at night.
Did you go to your doctor with symptoms of diabetes (increased thirst, blurred vision, going to the toilet all the time) but weren’t tested? - I went with symptoms and he tested me immediately and got a shock. He said, "You certainly don't look like a candidate for Diabetes, you are so fit and healthy, you're the second person today who has tested positive"

Early Detection

Posted by ctorkington on 29/09/2005 - 13:19

I was diagnosed early as a result of consulting my GP about pains in my thighs. As a result of the early diagnosis I have been able to educate myself [with my GP's assistance and the internet] and two years down the line I am stable with no diabetic complications. My health is better than I anticipated pre diagnosis and I have secured a good employment. The future for me is positive and bright. I am one of the lucky ones.

I believe that those deemd to be in high risk groups should automatically be screened [GIT]as a matter of routine as is the case for Breast Cancer / smears etc. Early detection of a liklihood of developing diabetes will give many the chance to make adjustments to their lifestyles and offset the development of T2 diabeteas much earlier. The cost of routine screening will inevitably be recovered as the incidence of T2 development is 'delayed/offset'.

Had I been aware that [and I presume here] that at some point in the past I was in fact on the wrong side of a GIT then given an education on what diabeteas means and is then I would certainly have altered my lifestyle towards a more sensible format.

Fear is a big motivator and given enough fear, the general population will for the most part respond in a positive way. Give them the education and the fear will disappear.

The big problem with government and those institutions that rule our everyday lives is that they continually make the mistake that the average person on the street is not capable of understanding complicated issues.

Early detection

Posted by pattidevans on 29/09/2005 - 19:44

Neil

Yes... all those symptoms. I could barely walk to the surgery as I had no energy, and it had come on fairly quickly. I was on a Weightwatchers regime and delighted at the loss of weight so I hardly thought that the weight loss was a symptom! I was never *really obese, just overweight by about 1 stone. At diagnosis I was losing 3 - 4lb per week and underweight by a fair margin. BG 31 and ketones in the urine. There was no argument!

Patti Evans
Levemir/Novorapid